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Purchase Tips

Purchasing a Cessna 180
Author Last Post

Hello Richard

 

Thank you again for your email. I spoke with the Club President. It was decided that since I missed the opportunity that we are going to wait until after the annual meeting. If any decisions are made, ie: changes to the club’s bylaws, then the members will have to ratify them. The Club President believes that at that time will be a good time to survey the members for additional input.

 

Arnold Villeneuve  

 

From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com]
Sent: June-03-15 3:15 AM
To: Purchase Tips
Subject: re: Purchasing a Cessna 180 <<$128800379848$>>

 

Arnold,

Over a month ago, you stated that you would contact the club president about doing a survey before the annual convention fly-in, in order to get some actual data about a number of concerns and issues (membership requirements, club exclusivity, promoting Skywagons, etc), before the annual Board of Directors meeting (which will take place during the convention). 

The Convention is now about a month away, but I haven't seen any survey either in the Newsletter, or on-line.  Seems a shame to not get input from the entire club before the upcoming meeting, and a computer-based survey would be a pretty efficient way to do that.

Rick Putnam

 
You are correct. I did promise to do that. Some family stuff has occupied my time as of late and I forgot to follow up on this. I will get to it as soon as possible.

From: Richard Putnam (reputnam@gmail.com)
Sent: ?6/?3/?2015 3:14 AM
Subject: re: Purchasing a Cessna 180 <<$128800379848$>>

Arnold,
Over a month ago, you stated that you would contact the club president about doing a survey before the annual convention fly-in, in order to get some actual data about a number of concerns and issues (membership requirements, club exclusivity, promoting Skywagons, etc), before the annual Board of Directors meeting (which will take place during the convention). 

The Convention is now about a month away, but I haven't seen any survey either in the Newsletter, or on-line.  Seems a shame to not get input from the entire club before the upcoming meeting, and a computer-based survey would be a pretty efficient way to do that.

Rick Putnam
 

I will be out of my office traveling on business Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.  I will answer emails in the evening or when I can get the time to respond. If you need assistance please contact my assist, Kelli Griffith at (713) 816-0563 or email her at kelli.griffith2@gmail.com

Thank you,

Mick VonTour

(281)731-9499

 
Arnold,
Over a month ago, you stated that you would contact the club president about doing a survey before the annual convention fly-in, in order to get some actual data about a number of concerns and issues (membership requirements, club exclusivity, promoting Skywagons, etc), before the annual Board of Directors meeting (which will take place during the convention). 

The Convention is now about a month away, but I haven't seen any survey either in the Newsletter, or on-line.  Seems a shame to not get input from the entire club before the upcoming meeting, and a computer-based survey would be a pretty efficient way to do that.

Rick Putnam
 

Jeff,

 

I totally agree with your points.  I know 2 people who know a lot more about Skywagon’s then me, but don’t own one, so they can’t contribute to the forums.  I think the membership would benefit from their experiences.

 

I am also a member of the Supercub.org. There are a lot of Skywagon posts there.  If I had a point or question to make about my Skywagon, I’d be just as likely to post it there as this forum. 

 

Unless you plan to never sell your Skywagon, wouldn’t more members create more interest in Skywagon's and support demand for Skywagon values in the future?  With the wane in GA, something to consider.

 

Patrick Fox
 

A two tiered membership has been suggested and as Mike said the Board of Directors will be discussing this at the next meeting. I believe the President is already very aware of this discussion and will connect with him to see if he would like us to post a survey on the website and in the newsletter to see what the membership feels about “the club membership requirements”.

 

On another note I am very glad to see that member are using the clubs website and this discussion forum to bring their views to the table. That is what the website and discussion forums are for. Thank you for doing so. But please also remember that your postings are viewable by the public. If you wish to communicate comments that you only want other members to see please use the Private Members Discussion Forum.

 

Arnold Villeneuve

CEO

ShareParts LLC

www.shareparts.com

www.planbcp.com

1-855-NOPLANB

 

From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 11:43 AM
To: Purchase Tips
Subject: re: Purchasing a Cessna 180 <<$126548562257$>>

 

As a newbie Skywagon owner, and newbie Club member, I'd like to suggest an open membership. I think lots of skywagon "wanna-be's" would join in order to find out more about the airplane, to look for good ones for sale, etc. This would increase the club's revenue and at the same time expose more people to the 180/185's charms.....and what's wrong with that?  As a long-time Cessna 170 owner, I am well aware of the reputation the 180/185 club & members have for being snooty...and that rep starts with the owners-only membership requirement.

 
As a newbie Skywagon owner, and newbie Club member, I'd like to suggest an open membership. I think lots of skywagon "wanna-be's" would join in order to find out more about the airplane, to look for good ones for sale, etc. This would increase the club's revenue and at the same time expose more people to the 180/185's charms.....and what's wrong with that?  As a long-time Cessna 170 owner, I am well aware of the reputation the 180/185 club & members have for being snooty...and that rep starts with the owners-only membership requirement.
 

Thanks for the reminder Rick.  You make good points.  I do want to clarify your statement regarding the conventions specifically.  On average where average is defined as over the course of many years, not just 3 years as was published, the conventions generally pay for themselves.  Some years it costs the club money and other years the club makes money but on the whole the entire effort is better than break even.  Other fly in's do cost some money in the way of insurance and other soft costs but generally don't represent that much.  By far the largest expense the club has is the newsletters and everything that surrounds its production.

Again, thanks for reminding us about some of these details.
Mike
 
Mr Perkins,

During August of last year, I posted in the forums, a number of questions I had about the club, mainly concerning the purpose and exclusivity of the club, just like Jeff Skiles has questioned.

At that time, Bob Warner, the prior president of 4 years, answered some of my questions with a post that indicated that the club was mainly a social club.  However the bylaws declare that the club's purpose is to "promote and share" ... "the enjoyment and adventure"... of flying 180/185 aircraft.

My main question last August was:  "what do the current members of the club want?   To be an exclusive social club, or be an open club which promotes Skywagons to the rest of the flying community?"  ( Personally, I think that promoting Skywagons only to Skywagon's club members is like preaching to the choir, and believe that the exclusivity of the club is not the right approach.)

I proposed then, and do so again, that the question should be asked of the entire membership using a survey from the website, so that the board of directors have some data regarding the feelings of the entire club when they discuss this at their next board meeting.

Unfortunately, all of my posts, and Bob Warner's reply are in an unlikely location in the forums, in the forum titled: "Allowing Converted 182s into Club".  The posts  are still there, but for convenience, I will restate some of my suggestions which I request are discussed at the next board meeting.

          REPOST FROM LAST AUGUST:

1) if promoting the Skywagon in an "open way" becomes the club choice, then multiple levels of membership would be valid (thanks to Glenn for suggesting club membership levels)...such as:
  • a) Owner members - full rights, director access, fly-in participation, full website access. [$25/yr]
  • b) Associate members - prior Skywagon members who no longer have a plane but want to hang out.  (Current rules kick these people out of the club....I do not understand why you would even think about doing that).  [$20/yr]
  • c) Technical member - someone who wants or needs access to all the Forums to do maintenance on Skywagons or find out something technical.  (Not an owner, no fly-in privileges.)  [$10/yr]
  • d) Admirer member - someone who flies, rents, or just likes Skywagons can be a member at this level.  (Allowing this level of membership might just encourage someone to buy a Skywagon and become an Owner member.  This level could read all the Forums, but post only in the Airplanes for sale section.) [free]
2) If promoting the Skywagon to the general flying community is the club choice, then I think that with the Club's large cash reserve (approximately $100,000 ) and 501(c) status, then promoting Cessna 180/185s via a "Skywagons" scholarship to Emery Riddle (or other school) for some deserving student would help to get some younger people into flying and maybe someday even into Skywagon ownership.  How cool would that be to give an annual award to a young student with the Skywagons name associated with it !

3) It appears that a large part of the annual budget is for the annual convention and fly-ins, which most of the members do not participate in.  Forty to fifty attendees for the annual convention is less than 5 percent of the members.   The convention attendees are charged to participate so I figured the convention was a break-even deal.  But apparently not, so the club picks up the rest of the cost.  However, the club has an income stream of about $20,000 to $25,000 per year, so  how about spending a portion of that for the other 95% of the club which doesn't go to the fly-ins?   For example, how about having a couple  (say, three) "Annual Inspection Raffles"  each year, for $1000 each.  Wherein full members would get three chances to win $1000 to help pay for their annual inspection.  This would accomplish several things.  It would possibly keep more Skywagons in the air, ...get some really good attention on keeping folks memberships active, and probably encourage some new members.  The FBO or IA who did the inspection would obviously be impressed, and when the word gets out that this club actually helps its member to keep flying, that could be pretty good advertising.


So... Mr Perkins, in your post from a few minutes ago, you said that "this is a planned agenda item at the next board meeting", ... without defining what "this" included.  I request that the above items be included in the discussion.

Thank you,
Rick Putnam
 

Jeff (and others),

This is a planned agenda item at the next board meeting.
Mike Perkins
NW Director
 

I would like to echo Aaron in questioning the club's exclusivity clause. It has bothered me as well and I have come close to writing a post about it myself in the past. I don't understand the purpose of excluding people who are merely interested in 180's or might be prospective buyers of 180's and my experience with other clubs is quite different.

The Waco community actually has two clubs to support its approximately 175 aircraft. One of them, the National Waco Club, has over 900 members internationally. The openness of the club allows people to further there interest in a more casual way before actually buying an airplane. Many of the stalwart attendees at the annual convention/fly-in aren't owners at all but people who just like the aircraft and its history, they add vibrancy to the group. Many of the knowledgeable people who post on the Waco forum don't currently own a Waco but are still willing to pass on valuable advice from their experience.

While I owned the Waco, I was also a member of the Cessna 195 club because I have long been an admirer of the airplane. In fact, I almost bought one instead of my 185 but the thought of dealing with another radial got me down. I joined because 195's have the same engine and prop as my Waco YOC and the 195 club has a very extensive maintenance forum area I was interested in. I may still buy one some day.
  When I worked with chapters at EAA I dealt with 1,000 chapters around the country and the successful ones were very open to any interest. A chapter exclusive to one facet of aviation could be successful, but they depended very highly on committed, almost evangelical, leadership. Even so, none of them would turn away a member because they didn't have a particular interest and certainly not because they didn't have an aircraft or a license. In fact, often the strongest members of an EAA chapter aren't pilots at all, they are just people with an interest and a dream. Why shouldn't they be allowed to participate in their own way.
  Paul Poberezny, obviously a staunch homebuilder, made one of the basic tenets of EAA that the organization be "welcoming to all". I used to spend a couple of hours with him at his office behind the red barn every Wednesday at 10 am. I recall him saying more than once that throughout his 60 years running what is certainly one of the most successful aviation organizations there have always been people who wanted to make it exclusive and reject other interests. He fought that every time because in Paul's words, "what binds EAA members together is a love of airplanes", and that's the only requirement for membership.
I would like to suggest that the exclusivity clause serves no good purpose and in fact actually harms the expansion of interest in our aircraft. I believe that the board should revisit this policy with an eye toward opening membership to all those who admire these wonderful and capable aircraft.

Jeff Skiles
N2215T
 
The Forums are open for the public to read. The website has a Contact Us page and David did contact us. I was happy to post his request and information. He also purchased a Club Manual and we told him his first year was free when he joined because of his purchase.  The Club wishes him the best success. We will gladly help all others that come forward.

From: Aaron Bartels (Ajbart76@hotmail.com)
Sent: ?4/?22/?2015 1:57 AM
Subject: re: Purchasing a Cessna 180 <<$126469912094$>>

Or...we could have an open membership as long as you have a PPL or better.  This way David can buy his own membership, and post his own specific questions here on the forum, thus attracting the people who know the answer, or can point him in the general direction of the answer.  

 
Are you going to solicit the membership here for help every time a "prospective member" is looking to buy a 180/185???  We wouldn't even know about David's interest in a 180/185 unless you started a post about him.  Is each one of us supposed to email him and ask him if we can help in some way?!?  Doesn't that seem contrary to the way this whole forum works?!?!
 
I'm sorry for the little rant, but I have a real issue with the whole exclusivity of this site.  I was once in David's shoes, and I would've gladly paid the membership fee to get access to the forum and ask specific questions about our beloved airframes....whether I ended up buying the plane or not, the club would've been that much better off with another paying member.  I'm sorry but I don't get it.  
 
Rant over...good luck David!
 

Or...we could have an open membership as long as you have a PPL or better.  This way David can buy his own membership, and post his own specific questions here on the forum, thus attracting the people who know the answer, or can point him in the general direction of the answer.  

 
Are you going to solicit the membership here for help every time a "prospective member" is looking to buy a 180/185???  We wouldn't even know about David's interest in a 180/185 unless you started a post about him.  Is each one of us supposed to email him and ask him if we can help in some way?!?  Doesn't that seem contrary to the way this whole forum works?!?!
 
I'm sorry for the little rant, but I have a real issue with the whole exclusivity of this site.  I was once in David's shoes, and I would've gladly paid the membership fee to get access to the forum and ask specific questions about our beloved airframes....whether I ended up buying the plane or not, the club would've been that much better off with another paying member.  I'm sorry but I don't get it.  
 
Rant over...good luck David!
 
 Hello All
 
David Eastis contacted me today. He found our club on the Internet and read through some of our discussion forums as the Public is able to do. David is looking at purchasing a Cessna 185 Amphib and wanted to get some tips from members with experience in this area. You can preferably answer this email directly to the forum so that all can share in your wisdom and experience or you can contact David at the phone number and email address below.
 
Thank you for helping a prospective Cessna 185 Club Member.
 
Arnold - the Web Geek
 

====================== 

Arnold, Thank you for sharing your most helpful insights today. My contact info; 205-919-0711 davideastis@gmail.com

I live in Atlanta, Ga

185s located in Talledega, Al and Marathon, Fl both on EDO 2790s

  

David Eastis
=======================

 
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