Skip to main content
Not editable in Design Mode. Switch to HTML mode

How to use the Forums as ListServ Emails


Click Here To Learn How
Welcome to the Club Photo Albums Page. By default only the most recently updated photos are shown in the list below. To see all photo albums click on the Search Looking Glass icon to the right and change your selection. 

Avionics - Certificated

ADS-B OUT, Should I Buy Now?
Author Last Post
http://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/
 
The above link is the latest from the FAA on ADS-B, and just who needs it, and where.

Jim Hill
N2393C
54'18
 
This is but one of the solutions for European ADS-B, which likewise, is a requirement for all aircraft by 2020.
Jim
 
 
FreeFlight Systems Announces EASA Certification For The 1203C SBAS/GNSS Sensor

Provides High Integrity ADS-B position Source For European Market

FreeFlight Systems has received EASA certification for the 1203C SBAS/GNSS sensor. The system is currently FAA certified to TSO-C145c, and now has the additional certification of ETSO-C145c.



This certification expedites the process for attaining STC approvals for 1203C installations in Europe, which will prove to be vital as the deadlines for ADS-B equipage draw near. The compliance dates are June 8, 2016 for new aircraft and June 7, 2020 for aircraft needing retrofits.

As an affordable, easily installed position source approved for all ICAO jurisdictions, the integrated 15-channel 1203C SBAS/GNSS sensor is part of a fully rule-compliant and highly cost-effective ADS-B Out system. The 1203C currently operates as part of approved ADS-B installations worldwide and is appropriate for airline transport, regional, business aircraft, and rotorcraft applications.

The 1203C integrates readily with either a compatible DO-260A or DO-260B certified Mode S transponder and other existing avionics, requires no cockpit controls, and is compatible with a wide variety of antenna options. It also can serve as the approved position and timing source for CPDLC, RNP 0.3 installations, and TAWS/FMS via an ARINC 743A 2-wire interface.

The system is further capable of receiving external altitude and RAIM prediction requests via two ARINC 429 2-wire interfaces. “The 1203C is the simplest and most affordable way to meet the position source requirements for ADS-B,” said Tim Taylor, President and CEO of FreeFlight Systems. “With the added EASA certification, it is simpler for our European customers to accomplish the installation of a sensor that delivers regulatory compliance while adding capability and operational flexibility.”

(Image provided by FreeFlight Systems)

FMI: www.freeflightsystems.com

Jim Hill
N2393C
54' 18
 

Jim-

Thank you very much for that excellent write-up and insight to the history of ADS-B.
 
Well, for what its worth, even Canada is taking up the issue of ADS-B, as Europe and China are also doing.  I worked for 13 years in Anchorage as a representative for the industry (aircraft owners and pilots, as well as the airlines), in the search for something that would serve to decrease mid-air collisions as well as create free-er use of airspace, as well as altitude (read: optimum flight altitude for winds and weight).  We also looked for the benefits that could be derived from ADS-B to the pilot.  Some of those benefits have yet to come to fruition (they are still being worked on as we speak), and others are here now.  Examples would be the ability to see with reference to your own aircraft, traffic that could be conflicting as far as location, altitude, climbing/decending, direction of travel, etc.  Also, the ability to check the weather for any airport that you desire, while you are flying, which allows you to make/change, decisions while enroute.
  
Our study group also brought WAAS to reality, as well as LPV Approaches and the same for LNAV/VNAV Approaches.  The reduction in NDB stations, and also VOR's, which are tremendously costly as ground based stations to maintain.  One unfortunate loss, in my opinion, was Loran-C, which could have been upgraded to the precision that we currently see with GPS, thus creating a backup to GPS.
 
One feature that hasn't come to fruition as of yet, is a camera view of what the pilot (you), can expect to see when you get to your destination, of for that matter, even the mountain passes that you have to fly though on the way to your destination.  This issue is still being worked, but at the moment, what you have in the interim is the Alaska Weather Camera Network ( http://avcams.faa.gov ), which only needs to be expanded, and formalize the method to transmission from the ground to the aircraft enroute.  I feel sure that it will be coming soon.
 
I was involved in the Atlanta, Georgia Olympics, back in the mid 90's.  ADS-B, while in its infancy, began there.  I conducted the acceptance test flights for the company that invented the technology, which is the only reason that the FAA allowed any aircraft to be flying in and around the Olympic Games in Atlanta.  
 
As ADS-B was debuted to the aircraft industry in Alaska, naysayers were concerned about privacy issues, such as: Joe Blow will be able to track my aircraft and see where I go salmon fishing or moose hunting, and I will lose my "secret" spot.  The Fed's just want to spy on me.  Whose business is it where I fly?
 
To answer these and other questions, a Cessna 207, flying Part 135, from Bethel, AK, to another bush village airport, disappeared while enroute, during a snow storm, which brought visibilities to white-out conditions enroute.  The Joint Rescue Center was called on to conduct a Search and hopefully, Rescue mission.  But, Anchorage ATC said, "hey, here is the last known Lat/Long that we have on the aircraft, (which was equipped with ADS-B, flying in that part of the country where there is no Radar).  A CAP aircraft was dispatched to that location, and what would you know, they located the aircraft, and its occupants, all alive, though a couple had injuries, and a happy ending came of the situation. When the pilot was asked by an Anchorage TV News Station reporter about his appreciation for ADS-B, he replied, "I never turn that stuff on, because I don't trust it", but little did he know that even though he hadn't turned on his Garmin MX-20 Display, ADS-B "Out" was still functioning.  Had he turned on his MX-20, the display presentation would have warned him that he was about to impact terrain in what was determined to be a "CFIT" accident.  The pilot sort of looked like a fool for not using his equipment. And, by the way, the fact that you have so many GPS units that have terrain displayed on them, is because our ADS-B team demanded it for the trial test period. The manufactures were afraid to present it as their lawyers said that to do so would open them up for litigation should someone have an accident.
 
I am not trying to preach, but simply to answer some of the questions about ADS-B.  I feel that the FAA is not doing it correctly at the moment, but, with the industry vanguards pushing the issues (Alaska Airmen's Association, AOPA, CPA, EAA and others), I have hope that we will end up with a quality product.  Believe it or not, the FAA didn't want ADS-B.  They attempted to squash it from the beginning, but Senator Ted Stevens R-AK, put a choke-hold on them in Washington D.C. as he had the reins to control their budget.
 
What we currently see as ADS-B being mandated by 2020, is also the imptus for what we at Alaska Airlines invented, known as, RNP Approaches.  The FAA also didn't want RNP.  It simply didn't fit their TERPS Criteria.  Guess what?  TERPS was re-written to encompass the GPS Precision Technology that was simply a paradigm shift to the FAA folks in Oklahoma City that thought that they had a cap on their empire.  Now, the world in embracing RNP.
 
Change does cost money, but the industry groups are working hard to help force cost cuts to help aircraft owners.  With change, comes benefits, which may just save your life, or the life of someone that you know.
Jim Hill
N2393C
54' 180
 
FISH darn it. I hate mobile spelling!

From: Arnold Villeneuve (Arnold.Villeneuve@rogers.com)
Sent: ?3/?23/?2015 10:12 PM
Subject: re: ADS-B OUT, Should I Buy Now? <<$124856541711$>>

Hope they don’t introduce this to Bush Flying! If they do I hope they add a component so I can see where the fist are!

 

Arnold Villeneuve

CEO

ShareParts LLC

www.shareparts.com

www.planbcp.com

1-855-NOPLANB

 

From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com]
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 9:49 PM
To: Avionics - Certificated
Subject: re: ADS-B OUT, Should I Buy Now? <<$124856059011$>>

 

I am against the whole ADS-B requirement thing, at least in other than class A or B airspace. I am putting off doing anything about it, hoping that either 1)  the whole thing wil go away (remember the 406 elt mandate?), which is probably umlikely, or 2) at the least, as more mfr's develop ADS-B units the prices will come down. In any event, I plan on installing the minimum equipment required, which would be ADS-B out only.

 

Hope they don’t introduce this to Bush Flying! If they do I hope they add a component so I can see where the fist are!

 

Arnold Villeneuve

CEO

ShareParts LLC

www.shareparts.com

www.planbcp.com

1-855-NOPLANB

 

From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com]
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 9:49 PM
To: Avionics - Certificated
Subject: re: ADS-B OUT, Should I Buy Now? <<$124856059011$>>

 

I am against the whole ADS-B requirement thing, at least in other than class A or B airspace. I am putting off doing anything about it, hoping that either 1)  the whole thing wil go away (remember the 406 elt mandate?), which is probably umlikely, or 2) at the least, as more mfr's develop ADS-B units the prices will come down. In any event, I plan on installing the minimum equipment required, which would be ADS-B out only.

 
I am against the whole ADS-B requirement thing, at least in other than class A or B airspace. I am putting off doing anything about it, hoping that either 1)  the whole thing wil go away (remember the 406 elt mandate?), which is probably umlikely, or 2)  as more mfr's develop ADS-B units the prices will come down. In any event, I plan on installing the minimum equipment required, which would be ADS-B out only.
 

FreeFlight Systems will offer an ADS-B-Out system with a price tag of under $2,000. The company will officially launch its Equip-It 2020 packages on April 8, the opening day of this year’s Aircraft Electronics Association Convention in Dallas. Equip-It 2020 will include FreeFlight’s RANGR Lite in two options, ADS-B Out, which will meet the 2020 equipment requirement, and ADS-B In/Out, which will have the added weather and traffic capabilities. The ADS-B Out-only option includes the FDL-978-TXL with a list price of $1,995. The ADS-B In/Out system, the FDL-978- XVRL, will sell for $3,695. Both systems come complete with built-in WAAS/GPS, ADS-B and GPS antennas, an install kit, control head and/or a Wi-Fi module if needed.

“Many of our customers, especially those with older aircraft, told us that they need a low cost option for equipage to meet the Jan.1, 2020 deadline for ADS-B,” said Tim Taylor, president and CEO of FreeFlight. “We needed to find a way to accomplish that without compromising the quality of the system. Volume was the way to make that happen, and we are stepping up.” To that end, the company said it’s committed to build 10,000 systems in an effort to keep the cost down for buyers and is offering them through participating dealers, which will be announced April 8. Deliveries are expected to begin late in the second quarter of this year, FreeFlight said.

 
While I intend to equip with ADS-B In, and Out, which will give me all of the advantages of ADS-B, others may decide to only go with the mandatory ADS-B Out.

Jim Hill
N2393C
54' 18
 

We are doing it now for the following reasons (although they may not be relevant, but it is our gamble):

 
Cheaper to do it now (since the panel will be off, and less time and money  for the future)
Avionics shops will/can charge more as the mandate approaches (busier, and higher demand=higher prices)
If you wait till the last minute, you plane may have to sit on the tarmac, until a shop has a window of time to fix, as I don't think the FAA is going to provide additional grace period.
With what the FAA has invested in the 978 standard, I don't think they are changing anytime soon.
 
Those are the reasons I have used to convince myself of the decision to upgrade now.
 

So, the mandate isn't until 2020.  Why should I buy now (assuming I'm upgrading my panel) when the likelihood exists that either the mandate will change or the product offerings will.  I really don't want to invest in something now that will be 5 years old when its required.

 
Return to Forum