Skip to main content
Not editable in Design Mode. Switch to HTML mode

How to use the Forums as ListServ Emails


Click Here To Learn How
Welcome to the Club Photo Albums Page. By default only the most recently updated photos are shown in the list below. To see all photo albums click on the Search Looking Glass icon to the right and change your selection. 

Operation Tips

Hot Start
Author Last Post
Tom-
I think you are correct, the fuel pump only purges to the fuel control unit as that is where the return line is.
 
Despite where it purges to, the technique works very well without flooding the system with raw fuel. Once purged, a normal cold start procedure pushes liguid gas to the spider and injectors.
 

That’s why I own a pre 1963 180 J

 

Never a hot start issue!

 

 

From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com]
Sent: August-05-16 7:21 PM
To: Operation Tips
Subject: re: Hot Start <<$154222813115$>>

 

Actually, I've been using that technique lately and it works great. Mixture cut-off, run the pump in emergency for 20 seconds or so. Pump off, mixture rich, crank and advance the throttle. Not sure what it purges but it seems to work for me anyway.

Jeff Skiles
N2215T

 
Actually, I've been using that technique lately and it works great. Mixture cut-off, run the pump in emergency for 20 seconds or so. Pump off, mixture rich, crank and advance the throttle. Not sure what it purges but it seems to work for me anyway.

Jeff Skiles
N2215T
 
Ive been doing research on starting techniques in my newly acquired 185.
 
Hilltop had a technique in purging, for a hot start, by running the boost pump while in cutoff.
He said that it purges up to the spider.
From the schematic it does not seem to purge anything past the FCU and not up to the spider so I am confused.
Can someone clarify this for me?
 
Tnx,
Tom

 
Ditto Wagon Driver. I too have an IO 550D and have yet to have an issue getting my hot engine started. I use the same method and if it falters when the engine catches, I just hit the boost. Too easy.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 3, 2014, at 11:38 AM, "Wagon Driver (skywagona185f@gmail.com)" <mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> This works for me too but I generally have to bump the high boost to keep it running and then only when I'm closer to the 20 minutes. Inside of 10 minutes it just fires right up. My hot start procedure is not much different, I just bring the prime pressure up and then crank with mostly rich and ease the throttle in. When it catches I bump high boost as needed. Never had a problem getting it started. This is on an IO-550D.
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Lincoln Groom (linkgroom@aol.com) <mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com> wrote:
> View/reply online Reply to forum at OperationTips@skywagons.org Reply directly to Lincoln Groom at linkgroom@aol.com
> Been starting fuel injected engines a long time(45 years) I was pleasantly surprised when I bought my 185 3 years ago. The owner who had been flying it for 25 years said< if it is hot(less than 20 min shut down) use no prime, mix rich and crank. It always fires and then tries to die. As it tries to die just smoothly advance the throttle and it will catch. Still can't believe it is that easy. link groom
>
>
>
>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<<
> You have received this message as a member of: International 180/185 Club, Inc
> Change preferences (including opt-out): https://SkywagonsClub.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=13&club_id=669928
>
>
 
This works for me too but I generally have to bump the high boost to keep it running and then only when I'm closer to the 20 minutes.  Inside of 10 minutes it just fires right up.  My hot start procedure is not much different, I just bring the prime pressure up and then crank with mostly rich and ease the throttle in.  When it catches I bump high boost as needed.  Never had a problem getting it started.  This is on an IO-550D.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Lincoln Groom (linkgroom@aol.com) <mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com> wrote:
View/reply online       Reply to forum at OperationTips@skywagons.org       Reply directly to Lincoln Groom at linkgroom@aol.com

Been starting fuel injected engines a long time(45 years) I was pleasantly surprised when I bought my 185 3 years ago. The owner who had been flying it for 25 years said< if it is hot(less than 20 min shut down) use no prime, mix rich and crank. It always fires and then tries to die. As it tries to die just smoothly advance the throttle and it will catch. Still can't believe it is that easy.    link groom


 

Been starting fuel injected engines a long time(45 years) I was pleasantly surprised when I bought my 185 3 years ago. The owner who had been flying it for 25 years said< if it is hot(less than 20 min shut down) use no prime, mix rich and crank. It always fires and then tries to die. As it tries to die just smoothly advance the throttle and it will catch. Still can't believe it is that easy.    link groom

 

Thanks for the approving words, Jeff. If you begin with my procedure and have a good starter system (starter, grounding, wiring), I doubt you will every have any dead battery issue. I will often begin with my "hot start" procedure right away, even when the engine has had significant cool-down period, 'cuz I know it always works. I tend to run my batteries beyond six years, and even after the "at rest" voltage approaches 12.1 Volts.

 

OK, I have tried them all with inconsistent results. I'm not saying I'm doing them right but in the end I always seem to resort to Dunc's version (quoted below) to get the thing started before the battery runs out. Thanks for the responses. Clearly this is an issue that will always be a challenge for IO-520 owners.

1.       Mixture and throttle both full open. Turn boost pump to “emergency” and let run until the fuel flow stabilizes, then “off”. This clears the all vapor locked fuel lines, throughout the spider and injectors. It also purges the vapor return line to the header tank. You may have a minor amount of liquid fuel on pavement. You can station a person to monitor this with thumbs up/dn sign like you do with a radial engine.

2.       Pump “off”.  Leave throttle wide open. Mixture to ICO. Mags on. Crank.

3.       After a just few revolutions, the mixture will reach the stoichiometric ratio which will begin firing.

4.       Immediately push the mixture full forward (rich) and pull the throttle back to idle. With just a little practice this very is easily done with no over speeding

5.       You will need to blip the fuel boost pump to emergency to keep the engine from faltering – very similar to keeping a radial running after initial start. It will run smoothly within very few seconds. 


Jeff Skiles
N2215T
 

I've tried it all. Everything I've ever read that anyone has ever posted. Nothing worked 100% of the time, nor quickly. I even hired this guy to try and help:

 
Image
 
That didn't work either. of course he was able to get rid of that unsightly wart...and the neighbor's rooster no longer wakes me up...so not a complete loss

But Finally a simple solution that works 100% of the time. Now I can cancel that surgery for adding a third arm so I could use the starter, throttle and mixture all at the same time.

On the trip to Arkansas we stopped for fuel. I told everyone I had a deck of cards so we could entertain ourselves while we waited 30 minutes for the engine to cool down so I could start it. Scot Warren told me he had a way that always worked for him. Of course I didn't believe it would work cause I'd tried everything, but gave it a try anyway.

1. Throttle all the way forward
2. Mixture all the way forward.
3. Boost pump on (low or high or whatever - doesn't matter) until gauge shows about 14. Boost pump off.
4. Crank the engine while slowing closing the throttle.

Engine fires. Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! And the throttle is going the correct way!

Works absolutely every time. Minimal engine cranking. No over-revving on startup. And no three handed manipulation of controls or magic dance with the throttle and mixture. No running the boost pump with mixture out throttle in "to cool the lines" like Continental directs (which did nothing to help btw).

Thank you Scot!

 
I found the key to a hot start is in  the shut down. Bring RPM up to 1200 to 1500 and pull mixture to cut off leaving throttle where it was set. Then when it's time to start begin cranking and at first sign of life push mixture in. After engine fires reduce throttle if necessary. Used this on Bonanza and Baron and have never found the need to "flood" start as Continental suggests.
 
DonMc
61516
 

Hilltop, I appreciate your response, and double checked what I sent. I did not say to keep mixture to ICO when purging system (Step 1). Exactly the opposite. The mixture is set to full rich when purging vapor lock, and  ICO only when cranking to start which blocks any further fuel flow until you achieve the stoichiometric air/fuel mixture ratio and the engine begins running.

 

Any fast advance of the throttle on any engine with an accelerator pump-equipped carb, whether a radial, flat, or V-8, is a "no no" only because you are fiddling with that same stoi ratio when you have no idea where you sit mixture-wise. It causes a backfire ONLY when you are already on the lean side as it will go beyond the proper ratio which causes fuel ignition to stop, then resume as it again reaches the proper ratio, yielding a 'POP'.

 

When you leave extra fuel in intake manifold, or the supercharger housing in the case of a radial, it will quickly be evaporated off smoothly with no backfire because substantial airflow picks up quickly as you reach idle RPM. I don't jerk the throttle around, and have never had a backfire with my technique, and this is the scientific reason why not. This method is not some OWT.

 

First, I gave my hot start procedures for the IO520, that is the injected engine.

 
Then, I gave my hot start procedure for the carb equipped O470 and O520 just for information in case anyone was wondering about the carb engines (which was not asked for). There is no fuel pump or purge possible on a carb engine.
 
Notice I said MY hot start procedure, it works for me, others have their own methods but these are the safest and "works best for me methods" I have found.
 
The reason I do not leave the mixture at full rich while purging the vapor with the fuel pump on high is that although it does purge the entire fuel system from the pump to the spider to the injectors, it also floods raw gas into the intake manifold which is a serious backfire/fire hazard and highly recommend that no one EVER do that unless you want to take a chance on burning down your airplane. Like pumping the throttle on a radial engine, don't do it!
 
Leaving the mixture at idle cut-off while purging indeed does not purge the vapor from the spider to the injectors. It only circulates cool gas to the spider and back to the header tank removing vapor only from that part of the system. BUT, when you do the normal cold start procedure after purging, that will send fresh cool liquid gas from the spider down to the injectors and you will get a good start without flooding the intake manifold and no gas should run out on the ground.
 

Hilltop, If this was for carburetored (O) engines, I am not sure how fuel gets circulated?? For injected (IO) engines:

 

1.       Mixture and throttle both full open. Turn boost pump to “emergency” and let run until the fuel flow stabilizes, then “off”. This clears the all vapor locked fuel lines, throughout the spider and injectors. It also purges the vapor return line to the header tank. You may have a minor amount of liquid fuel on pavement. You can station a person to monitor this with thumbs up/dn sign like you do with a radial engine.

2.       Pump “off”.  Leave throttle wide open. Mixture to ICO. Mags on. Crank.

3.       After a just few revolutions, the mixture will reach the stoichiometric ratio which will begin firing.

4.       Immediately push the mixture full forward (rich) and pull the throttle back to idle. With just a little practice this very is easily done with no over speeding

5.       You will need to blip the fuel boost pump to emergency to keep the engine from faltering – very similar to keeping a radial running after initial start. It will run smoothly within very few seconds. 

 

 

Thanks, that's a new one to me! I'll give it a try this weekend.


Jeff Skiles
N2215T
 

Jeff-

Sure-fire, works every time for me hot start procedure for IO520:
 
Mags off
Mixture, idle cut-off
Throttle, all the way in
Master switch,on
Fuel boost pump, both sides on for 15 seconds. This circulates cold fuel thru the system purging the vapor but does not let fuel into the engine
 
Now, just do normal start:
Throttle, closed
Mixture, rich
Fuel boost pump, low side on
Throttle, open until 8-10gph on fuel flow, then closed
Starter, engage with mags on
Throttle, open slowly until engine fires
 
Sure fire, works every time for me hot start for the O470 and O520:
Throttle, leave it where it was when the engine was shut down, don't touch it
Engage starter with mags on
 

I almost hate to mention this because I think I know the answer but does anyone have a sure-fire, can't miss hot start technique for an IO-520. I'm not finding much in searching the site. I've never failed to get the thing running using the Cessna flood technique but it usually isn't pretty.


Jeff Skiles
N2215T
 
Return to Forum